[翻译]Xabi Alonso interview for The Sunday Times
Xabi Alonso interview: Southgate is trying to change England but the mentality is buried deep
Xabi Alonso访问：Southgate正在改变英格兰，但这种心理植根甚深
As he heads for retirement this weekend, Xabi Alonso explains why the game is about intelligence not physicality
本周末即将退役，Xabi Alonso阐释了为何比赛更重于头脑而非身体
Matt Dickinson, Chief Sports Writer
May 18 2017, 12:01am, The Times
Alonso says that he will take few regrets into retirement, but one is being unable to win the Premier League with LiverpoolTIMES PHOTOGRAPHER MARC ASPLAND
Alonso表示退役时刻并没有太多感到遗憾的事，但是没能和利物浦夺得联赛冠军是其中一件。
There is a vintage BMW R100 motorbike sitting in a garage waiting for its owner to rev it up and ride it down the highway. Xabi Alonso is looking forward to opening the throttle. “Well, I have to pass my test first,” he smiles. “But I’ve already done the theory. I’m almost ready to go.”
一辆复古的BMW R100摩托机车静候在车库中等待着它的主人发动它，沿着公路疾驰而去。Xabi Alonso期待着发动马达的那一刻。“嗯，我得先通过考试，”他微笑起来，“但是我已经完成理论部分了。我几乎已经准备好上路了。”
This weekend, almost two decades after a teenage Alonso gave up his two-wheeled machine to focus on making the most of himself as a footballer, one of the best players of his generation will ride off after 18 seasons in which he has not only won so much but accomplished it all with such class, such style.
这周末，在少年Alonso放弃了他的两轮机车以便专注于让自己成长为一名球员近20年后，这一带代球员的佼佼者之一将在18个赛季后启程了，在这18个赛季中，他不仅赢得了无数荣誉，并且以相当经典极具个人风格的方式，为之画上了句号。
When Alonso decided it was time to announce his imminent retirement, he wondered which moment he would use to accompany the message on Twitter. Would it be the jaw-dropping comeback in Istanbul to win the Champions League with Liverpool in 2005? How about the celebrated La Decima with Real Madrid in 2014? Or his most recent back-to-back Bundesliga championships with Bayern Munich?
当Alonso决定是时候宣布他即将退役的消息时，他也很困惑应当选取哪一刻搭配Twitter上的文字。是2005随利物浦赢得欧冠的惊天逆转吗？2014年庆祝皇马第十冠怎样？还是他最近随拜仁接连赢得的德甲冠军？
But, then, how could Alonso possibly overlook the 2010 World Cup with Spain, when he started every game, which was the crowning glory of his country’s unprecedented hat-trick of international triumphs? How could one picture sum up a career? With characteristic thought, Alonso grabbed a pair of boots, wandered over to the park pitch near his home in Munich where his nine-year-old son plays at weekends.
但是，那么，Alonso又怎可能忽视随西班牙赢得的2010年世界杯？他首发了每一场比赛，这也是他的祖国前所未有的国际大赛奖杯帽子戏法中至高无上的荣耀。一张照片怎足以囊括一段完整的生涯？在他独特的思考后，Alonso抓着一双鞋，漫步走向了他慕尼黑的家边上的公园球场，那里也是他九岁的儿子周末踢球的地方。
Using a phone, his wife took a black and white picture of Alonso, boots in one hand, shy little wave with the other. “Lived it. Loved it. Farewell beautiful game,” he posted.
他的妻子用手机为Alonso拍摄一张黑白照片，他一手提着球鞋，一手带着一丝躲闪的羞涩轻轻挥动。“经历过。热爱过。别了，美丽的运动。”他写道。
“I couldn’t pick one photo of my career,” he says. “So I thought, ‘Let’s go back to where it all started, a normal football pitch, with my boots. Let’s finish where it began, where the kids play.’ ”
“我没法从我职业生涯中挑选一张（来代表），”他说，“于是我想，‘让我们回到一切开始的地方吧，一片再普通不过的足球场，带着我的球鞋。让我们在开始的地方结束，就在孩子们踢球嬉戏的地方。’”
It was perfectly done, with no PR hullabaloo; elegant, uncomplicated. It is the same when we sit down in the sunshine at Munich’s relaxed training ground on Säbener Strasse to discuss all that Alonso has achieved, and what happens next.
这件事真的做得很完美，没有公关的喧嚣；优雅，简单。当我们在塞贝纳大街拜仁慕尼黑放松练习场地上，沐浴着阳光坐下，谈论Alonso的成就和未来时，也是一样的。
As Philipp Lahm chats a few yards away about his own retirement, Alonso is still not sure what emotions will hit him against Freiburg on Saturday, the last professional game of his life.
Philipp Lahm就在几码外谈论着他退役的事，Alonso依旧不太确定，周六对阵弗莱堡，他生命中的最后一场职业比赛时，他会被怎样的情绪击中。
Alonso won the World Cup with Spain in 2010MIKE HEWITT/FIFA VIA GETTY IMAGES
Alonso随西班牙在2010年赢得了世界杯
But, as he counts down every training session, the finale feels right. At 35, he wanted to bow out at the top, not dragging out his career in China for any amount of money. He hoped to go out on a high — lifting the Bundesliga with Bayern is close enough to the peak.
但是随着每一堂训练都进入了倒计时，最后的乐章感觉并不坏。35岁，他想要在顶级的联赛退出舞台，而不是为了钱在中国延长他的职业生涯。他希望在巅峰时离开——跟随拜仁举起德甲冠军奖盘足够接近顶峰了。
Retirement propels many sportsmen into a scary void. “I am at peace with myself,” he says. “When I have time to reflect, I know the memories will be good ones.”
退役让很多运动员陷入令人恐惧的空虚。“我内心很平静，”他说，“当我有时间去反思回顾，我知道回忆将会是很美好的。”
Regrets? Well, not quite too few to mention. “Maybe I have three,” he says. “With Real Sociedad, my club, we were one game from winning La Liga [in 2002-03]. With Liverpool we were so close to the Premier League. With Bayern, so close to the Champions League. But maybe that would be too much to ask, too perfect. If you can call them regrets . . . but that’s just football. When I look back, I can be happy that I’ve done what I wanted, dictated my path.”
遗憾？嗯，也不是完全没有。“或许我有三样，”他说，“和皇家社会，我的俱乐部，在一起，我们只差了一场比赛，与[2002-03]的西甲冠军失之交臂。和利物浦在一起，我们如此接近英超冠军。和拜仁在一起我们如此接近欧冠冠军。但或许这要求得太多了，太过于完美了。如果它们也能被称之为遗憾……但是这就是足球。当我回溯过去，我能够很高兴我成就了我想要的，我掌控了自己的道路。”
A new direction awaits, and one that will surely take him into coaching. If ever a man seemed hand-crafted for guiding the next generation, it is this most wise of footballers.
新的道路正在等待着开启，必有一条是执起教鞭。如果有谁似乎是生来就该指导下一代的，那就是这位球员中最具智慧的。
Not so fast, Alonso says. First he wants a long break, a proper year out after so many years of physical and mental intensity. “Sometimes I think about the games too much,” he says. “I’ve lost a lot of sleep thinking about matches for days before, days after.”
没那么快，Alonso说。首先他想要休个长长的假，在经历了这么多年身心紧张的生活后，好好休息一年。“有时候我过度沉浸于思考比赛，”他说，“在比赛前后的几天里我想着比赛的事，经常失眠。”
There is that motorbike to ride, perhaps some skiing, travel with his family. His son, Jontxu, “a little Scouser” born in Liverpool, is demanding that his father takes him to see the new main stand at Anfield. “I’ve spent my life trying to squeeze everything into four weeks in summer,” he says. “Now I don’t have to plan anything. I have weekends for the first time in 18 years. My wife is thrilled.”
他计划了摩托车骑行，或许还有滑雪，跟家人去旅行。他的儿子，Jontxu，出生在利物浦的“一个小利物浦佬”，一直恳求他的父亲带他去看看安菲尔德新的主看台。“我一直过着试图把一切塞进夏季的四个礼拜中的生活，”他说，“现在我不需要一定计划好任何事。18年来第一次我拥有周末了。我的妻子兴奋得要命。”
But you would bet a lot of money on the game drawing him back, and Alonso seeking to pass on all he has learnt from all those years as the cerebral midfield fulcrum of some of the world’s biggest clubs.
但是你会押上一大笔钱的，笃定足球比赛吸引着他回归，Alonso会寻求将他这些年在世界上最伟大的俱乐部担任中场大脑的支柱时学习到的东西传递下去。
From his five seasons at Anfield, Alonso developed a deep fondness for English footballLAWRENCE LOOI/EPA
在安菲尔德的五个赛季，Alonso产生了对英国足球深深的喜爱。
Alonso is the boy from the Basque country who came to England in 2004, aged 23. His Liverpool debut came in a bruising defeat by Bolton Wanderers. “I remember [after] 15, 20 minutes I think it was a Kevin Nolan tackle, a ‘welcome to the Premier League tackle,’ ” he laughs. “Then there was [Jussi] Jaaskelainen from his kicks, not even trying to pass, just long balls up to Kevin Davies. I said to myself, ‘This is different. OK, Xabi, you want to make it here, become a pro with Liverpool you need to learn fast.’ ” He won the Champions League, unforgettably, at the end of his first season.
Alonso，一个来自巴斯克地区的男孩，在2004年23岁时来到了英格兰。他的利物浦首秀就迎来了博尔顿流浪者十分激烈的防守。“我记得在15，20分钟[后]我想那是一个来自Kevin Nolan的铲球，一个‘欢迎来到英超铲’，”他大笑起来，“然后是[Jussi] Jaaskelainen的出球，他甚至都没试图传球，就是长传冲吊给Kevin Davies。我对自己说，‘这里可不一样。好吧，Xabi，你想要在这里取得成功，在利物浦成长为一名职业球员，你必须快速学习。’”在他的第一个赛季末，他赢得了欧冠冠军，令人难以忘怀的时刻。
From those five seasons at Anfield, Alonso developed a deep fondness for English football. But it is not a blind loyalty.
在安菲尔德的五个赛季，Alonso产生了对英国足球深深的喜爱。但这不是一种盲目的情感。
That overt physicality still makes Alonso shake his head with bemusement. We chat about Steven Gerrard’s recent promise to knock out the “showboating mentality” among Liverpool’s under-18s. It is a matter of emphasis and Alonso’s is clear.
那种公开的对于身体对抗的强调依旧让Alonso带着困惑摇头不已。我们也聊了Steven Gerrard最近发誓要在利物浦U18的球员中扫除“轻浮的心态”。这是一种强调，Alonso很清楚。
“You need to be up for the game but, for me, it’s about intelligence,” he says. “If you are afraid of contact, for sure you won’t make it. But the most important thing is to understand the game, like why I need to play a short pass here, a longer pass there. Why take this position not that one. Try to understand the game around you. That’s my idea.”
“你需要为比赛做好准备，但对我而言，这是关于头脑的，”他说，“如果你害怕身体接触，你当然不会成功。但最重要的是解读比赛，就像是为什么我需要在这里用短传，而那里传球则要更远。为什么我选择这个位置而不是那个。努力去理解你身处的比赛。那是我的理念。”
It is a reminder that he once gave an interview despairing that a young player in the Liverpool academy had cited the tackle as his greatest strength. “Tackling isn’t a quality to aspire to,” he said, in a perfectly pitched challenge to English footballing culture.
大家都还记得他曾在一次采访中对一名利物浦青训营的年轻球员将铲球视作他最大的优势表示失望。“铲球不是一种值得追求的品质。”他说，这恰恰挑战了英国的足球文化。
“It was a great controversy,” Alonso says. “And I stick with my opinion. I don’t refuse the tackle. I love a good tackle. But it’s the last resort.
“那引起了很大争议，”Alonso说，“但我坚持我的观点。我并不抗拒铲球。我喜欢漂亮的铲球。但这是最后不得已的手段。”
“It’s much better to avoid the tackle. Try to anticipate. How many times does [Barcelona’s Sergio] Busquets tackle in his position? He’s so ahead of the game, he doesn’t need to.
“更佳的方式是避免铲球。努力去做好预判。[巴塞罗那的Sergio]Busquets在他的位置上有多少次铲球？他的判断已经早早走在了比赛进程之前，他不需要这么做。”
“In England you love to roar, ‘Aaagghhhh,’ it’s part of your game. But it needs to progress like we see with German players now, more adaptable, more flair. You see the success they had at the World Cup, and that was a ten-year process. England, it’s taking longer. You have good young players, [Gareth] Southgate is trying to bring a different way that I like. But the mentality is buried deep.”
“在英格兰大家喜欢大喊大叫‘啊——’，这是比赛的一部分。但是它也需要发展进步，就像我们现在在德国球员身上看到的那样，更具适应性，更有才华。你看到了他们在世界杯上取得的成功，这是十年变革的成果。英格兰，或许需要更长时间。你有很棒的年轻球员，[Gareth] Southgate正在努力走出一条不同的道路，是我喜欢的那种方式。但是[过去的]这种心理是植根很深的。”
Alonso has not started his coaching badges but the Spanish federation will fast-track him when he returns to SpainTIMES PHOTOGRAPHER MARC ASPLAND
Alonso还没有开始他的教练课程，但等他回到西班牙，西足协会为他加快进程
It would help, he says, if British players travelled more, as he has done. “Who does it? [Gareth] Bale has done it and been a big success but, in the past 20 years, how many other great players abroad? How many since David Platt? But you have everything you want in England, money, famous clubs, so players don’t try to find something else abroad,” he says.
他说，如果英国球员能像他一样多出去看看会很有帮助的。“谁是这么做的？[Gareth] Bale这么做了，并且取得了很大的成功，但是在过去的20年中，有多少其他优秀的[英国]球员在海外踢球呢？自David Platt以来有多少？但是呆在英国，你想要的一切都具备了，金钱，豪门，所以球员们也不去海外寻求一些不一样的东西。”他说。
Asked to name his favourite young English player, he instantly alights on the versatility and composure of Eric Dier, who just happens to have learnt his game in Portugal.
当被问及说出一个他最喜欢的年轻英国球员，他立刻赞扬了Eric Dier的灵活多变和沉着冷静，后者正巧在葡萄牙有过学习经历。
Such a fine player in his own right, with those beautifully stroked passes, Alonso insists that he was most useful for what he could bring out of others.
尽管自身就是一名出色的球员，拥有极为美妙的传球能力，Alonso坚持认为他最大的作用在于帮助其他球员更好地发挥。
“My job? To be a solution for my team-mates,” he says. “I wasn’t going to be the player to dribble past two opponents and strike from 30 yards. For the ones that could, I could make their job easier.
“我的工作？为我的队友提供解决方案，”他说，“我不会成为那种晃过对方两名防守球员，在30码处射门的人。为了那些有能力完成这个的球员，我能让他们的工作变得更简单些。”
“My idea was never about my game individually. It was always about that collective. If I do this, how does it help the team?”
“我的理念是从不把比赛看作个人的事。它总是关乎一个团队的事。如果我干着这份工作，该怎么帮助球队？”
It is another reason why he seems so well suited to coaching, having spent so many years understanding how a team ticks. “It doesn’t mean I am going to be a great coach,” he says. “But will it help? You would hope so.”
这是另一条为何他似乎如此适合执教的理由，在过去的多年中他理解一个团队是如何协同运作的。“这并不意味着我能成为一个很棒的教练，”他说，“但是会有所帮助吗？但愿吧。”
Additionally, he has worked under some of the most renowned coaches of the past 20 years — Rafa Benítez, José Mourinho, Pep Guardiola, Carlo Ancelotti — and in so many different systems, always the brain of his team.
此外，他曾效力于过去20年中最有声望的教练——Rafa Benítez， José Mourinho，Pep Guardiola，Carlo Ancelotti——在如此多不同的体系中，他总是球队的大脑。
He hates to compare those managers, declining to be drawn into moral arguments about which style is better. “What mattered to me wasn’t which style they used but having a clear vision,” he says. “It’s all about making the players believe in your ideas.
他讨厌比较那些教练，他拒绝陷入哪种风格更好的对他道德上的争论中。“对我而言重要的不是他们采取那种风格而是有一个清晰的视野规划，”他说，“一切都在于让球员接受你的想法。”
“Right way, wrong way? You need to know your players. With the national team, [Andrés] Iniesta, [David] Villa, [David] Silva, we couldn’t play counterattack and run 50 metres. We had to play in their half, to keep control. With Madrid, we had [Gareth] Bale, [Karim] Benzema, [Ángel] Di María and Cristiano [Ronaldo]. That’s very different.”
“正确的方式，错误的方式？你需要了解你的球员。在国家队，我们有[Andrés] Iniesta，[David] Villa，[David] Silva，我们不可能打防守反击，跑上50米。我们得压迫在对方半场踢，保持控球。在皇马，我们有[Gareth] Bale，[Karim] Benzema，[Ángel] Di María和Cristiano [Ronaldo]。那是非常不一样的。”
He has not started his coaching badges but, as he moves back to Spain this summer and a life split between San Sebastián and Madrid, the Spanish federation will fast-track him. His mind whirs with ideas. “I have never used sport psychology,” he says. “Maybe it would have helped sometimes when my form was not so good or thinking too hard. That’s a part where football can really develop, in my view.”
他还没有开始他的教练课程，但是随着他这个夏天返回西班牙，生活往返于圣塞瓦斯蒂安和马德里之间，西班牙足协也会为他加快进程。他的头脑呼呼转着装满了想法。“我还从没用到过运动心理学，”他说，“或许有时当我的状态不怎么好或者想太多的时候，它能帮上忙。这是足球真正可以进一步发展的地方，在我看来。”
He mentions Paris Saint-Germain’s collapse to Barcelona in the Champions League, where they lost the second leg 6-1 to lose 6-5 on aggregate. “That fear of losing,” he says. “We could all see it, so, mentally, how do you prepare better to cope with that? Physically, at the top, football is so well developed. Technically, tactically too. Mentally, I don’t know exactly how we can move it on, but I’d like to explore.”
他提到了巴黎圣日尔曼在欧冠中面对巴塞罗那的溃败，他们在第二回合输了6-1，最终以总分6-5被淘汰。“对失利的害怕，”他说，“我们可能都经历过，那么，在心理层面，我们该怎样更好地准备来应对它？在生理层面，在顶级联赛，足球已经发展得很成熟了。技术层面，战术层面也是。但是心理层面，我不清楚我们究竟该如何来推动它，但我很乐意来探索这个领域。”
Another thought process is how best to develop young players in an environment where the fame and riches grow with each year, turning heads. Alonso puts his own balance down to family. His father, who was a footballer with Barcelona and Real Sociedad, made his son finish his homework before going out to play.
另一个可以改进的想法是如何在这样一个名与利逐年增长引人注目的环境中培养年轻球员。Alonso将他这种平衡能力归结于他的家庭。他的父亲，曾是巴塞罗那和皇家社会的球员，要求他的儿子只有在完成功课后才能出去踢球。
“Because my father was a player too it was easier for me, watching that on a daily basis, to deal with the football life. For players who came from difficult backgrounds, neighbourhoods, the transformation is so huge that I can understand that you lose your way. I have some sympathy.
“因为我的父亲也曾是一名球员，日复一日地看着那些，处理好球员的生活对我来说要容易些。但是对那些来自不同背景、不同社群的球员来说，这种转变是巨大的，我很能理解你有时会迷失。我会感到有些同情。”
“That’s why the people around, an agent, staff from the club, you need to protect young players. That’s part of management. You can’t be a policeman but you have to guide. But it’s easy to talk. The best thing is to show the right way.”
“这就是为什么我们身边需要这些人，经纪人，俱乐部的职员，你需要保护好年轻球员。这也是管理的一部分。你不可能像个警察一样，但是你得要引导他们。不过嘴上说说总是很简单的。最好的办法就是展示给他们看正确的做法是怎样的。”
As a career to follow, you could not do much better than look to Alonso, though, unusually, there is no autobiography.
就职业生涯而言，除了向Alonso看齐，你很难做得更好了，然而，不同寻常的是，他并没有什么自传。
“To write an interesting book, you need to tell too much,” he says. “Some part of me is shy as well. I like to preserve some parts for me.”
“要写一本有趣的书，你得透露很多，”他说，“但我性格中的一部分还是挺害羞的。我更愿意为自己有所保留一些。”
It is not that he lacks opinions — far from it — but ask him to pick a best XI of team-mates over his career and he looks pained, saying that just at centre forward, it is impossible to choose between Fernando Torres, Robert Lewandowski, Villa, Benzema and more. “Imagine the texts I get,” he says. “Do I need that?”
他并非缺乏自己的观点——远非如此——但是当被问及挑选出他职业生涯的队友中最棒的11人时，他看上去很痛苦，他表示仅仅是中锋这个位置上，要从Fernando Torres，Robert Lewandowski，Villa，Benzema等等中挑选出一个就是不可能的。“我都能想象得出会怎么写我，”他说，“我有必要那么做吗？”
He is not interested in the froth, the superficial noise, of football but in real accomplishment and improvement. It is why he wants that proper break to recharge. His good friend, Mikel Arteta, jumped at the chance to go straight into coaching under Guardiola but despite Ancelotti offering to take him under his wing, Alonso is insistent that he will take a long pause. “Whatever I try, I want to feel it from my guts, to feel strongly about it,” he says. “I want to get it right. I won’t rush.”
他对足球世界中的泡沫和肤浅的热闹喧嚣没有兴趣，他感兴趣的是足球领域中真正的成就和提升。这就是他想要好好休整一段为自己充电的原因。他的好朋友，Mikel Arteta已经抓住机遇直接在Guardiola手下开始了教练历程，尽管Ancelotti提出将他召至自己羽翼之下，Alonso坚持自己要好好休息一阵。“无论我尝试什么，我都希望是发自内心深处的渴望，能为之感觉到一种强烈的热情，”他说，“我想要准备好。我不会仓促行事的。”
So he will ride off into the sunset on Saturday evening, to reflect and think. He will sort out those two big sacks of swapped shirts that have been piled up over the years.
所以他会在周六的晚上转身离开走进落日的光芒中，去好好回顾、思考。他会整理好这些年累积起来的两大麻袋交换来的球衣。
He will enjoy his break, talking about a car rally he would love to join. But one day, surely, he will be back in elite football. Alonso as the successful coach of an intelligent, passing team is not at all hard to imagine.
谈论着一场他想要加入的汽车拉力赛，他会享受他的假期的。但是总有一天，他一定会回到足球世界的顶级舞台上。Alonso，作为一支充满智慧、善于传控的球队的成功主帅，并不难以想象。
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过去好几天了，没工夫翻，也没什么好翻的，但是有几句我还蛮喜欢的。
我知道有些雷人，那些小心思，失眠，就真的跟脑补的一样。我一直觉得他心思敏感，但毕竟总觉得已经是非常坚强的人了，他之前似乎从来没提过失眠这种事。
离职同事真是很不一样的人，要挑选出职业生涯某一刻确实很难，同样重新创造一样东西，杰拉德就会选择把很多张照片揉进一张里，你腿就不会，选的球场也好，选的球鞋也好，他非常喜欢“画一个圆回到原点”这种念头。杰拉德自传写了一本又一本，你腿是坚决不会有的。到底什么内容让你腿觉得不好意思，越不说我越发好奇了，不，我不想知道。不知道他们看上对方哪点了，所以真的是离职同事。
好好的，怎么又有杰拉德了。想看你腿骂杰拉德呆瓜。
卡拉格一直在中枪，铲铲铲，吼吼吼。难为他们欢天喜地地吵到现在。不对，卡拉格跟谁吵架都很欢天喜地。
这么早立flag真的好吗，说真的，你想要每天晃着腿钓鱼也没关系的……还有些东西一下子说不清，我有点犯懒。
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